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 Post subject: 1953 War of the Worlds Similarities to Independence Day
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:38 am 
Tripod King

Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:07 am
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Has anyone noticed the similarities between the 1953 movie and Independence Day (aside from the "aliens invade Earth" theme, of course)? Consider:

The early battle where the military gets wiped out. In both movies, the human victims were not only US Marines, but Marines from El Toro Base in California. It's just that it was a ground battle in the 1950s and a dogfight in the 1990s. Since Hollywood's in California as well, I wonder if the filmmaking community has some sort of grudge with the Marines, particularly those at El Toro. If so, it must be a major one, as it has lasted for two generations between the films.

The human general who provides a tower of strength and comfort even when things are at their worst. Les Tremayne's "General Mann" did this in the first movie, and Robert Loggia's Chairman of the Joint Chiefs did it as well in "Independence Day".

The shape of the aircraft used in launching the nuke strike. Has anyone else been struck by the similarity in shape between the old Flying Wing and the Stealth bombers?

The human reliance on prayer, even when the actual defeat of the aliens has a scientific basis. We remember all the churches crowded with people in the 1950s movie; do you also remember Judd Hirsch's character conducting an impromptu Jewish service under Area 51 when the alien attackers started shooting up the place?

If you like puns, the fact that both alien groups were defeated by "diseases": regular germs in "War of the Worlds", and a "computer virus" in "Independance Day".


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 Post subject: Re: 1953 War of the Worlds Similarities to Independence Day
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 4:26 pm 
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Alland wrote:
Has anyone noticed the similarities between the 1953 movie and Independence Day


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but Marines from El Toro Base in California.


Maybe they're just handy for Hollywood, and more readily familiar to directors.

Quote:
The shape of the aircraft used in launching the nuke strike. Has anyone else been struck by the similarity in shape between the old Flying Wing and the Stealth bombers?


Yes, that was kinda cool to see.

Quote:
The human reliance on prayer,


Well, polls show that a majority of Americans still pray, so it's not such a non sequetor. Though, have you noticed how much more frequently folks bash Christianity for appearing in the Pal film, but narry a peep over the appearnce of Judaism in ID4. Curious, eh?

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...even when the actual defeat of the aliens has a scientific basis.


Welll, I guess that gets into the issue of proximate causes vs immediate causes. I suppose Pharaoh (in the bible) could have thought it was -really- just frogs and flies and locusts that plagued his people (the immediate causes, but not the proximate causes). The Pal film (and the book) at least credited God as the proximate cause of the germs.

Here's a couple of other parallels for you:

1. The taking of an alien (or part thereof) to a lab so that the humans get to know more about their invaders.

2. The refugees in an open truck, fleeing through a ruined city scene.[/i]


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 9:18 pm 
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Martian War Lord

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Welcome Alland. Some interesting observations.
Both had Scientist trying to solve the problem too.
Gypsywolf the reason why people get bothered about the Christianity thing in the Pal movie is because in the book, religion breaks down and Wells kinda has a go at it. but in the pal film it is strong and helps folks. the curate in the book is a loathsome, selfish, greedy, week individual but the pastor in the pal film is a hero sacraficing himself in the hope to comunicate with the martians. and as for ID4, it is similar to war of the worlds as just about any invasion of the Earth story is going to be but it isn't war of the worlds and so the film makers could do what they wanted with it and most fans of war of the worlds wouldn't care in the same way as a film ewith the title.


Bah bah black sheap April diamond spheres, Rigsby, Rigsby, Eight sided Pears.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 12:29 am 
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Tripod King

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as a classic film and story of the genre, its not suprising that Independance Day would have references in it. The wiping out of human forces in the first military encounters is pretty much required in any alien invaison story otherwise you'd destroy the credibility of the invaders. El Toro's defeat in both movies may (or may not, im not incredibly familiar with US military facilities) be down to the fact its a major base in California and any human resistance in the area would be centred there. Of course in Independance Day im sure there are other bases they could have used and possibly the WOTW connection was what made them choose El Toro. The similarites in the bombers im sure is simply down to the fact that those aircraft were the likely ones to carry a nuclear bomb in their respective times rather than any artistic tribute. Likewise I don't think the two Generals in the films play roles that are intentionally similar, they just happen to be that way. The two prayer segments i dont doubt are related, the one in Independance day is just too similar to not be inspired by the Pal movie - the desperate crowd of people, the world outside being destroyed around them, some people (seen more in the special extended DVD of Independance Day) resigning themselves to their fates.
Independance Day's ending with the virus im sure is a reference to the ending of WOTW, except with the nice Hollywood-friendly twist of it being caused by humans. But I dont hold that against Independance Day as i would a change to the ending in the upcoming Paramount abomination, as Independance Day never claimed to be telling the WOTW story, it was honest about wanting to be a hollywood style action movie and i can enjoy it for what it is because of that.

also one other similarity i'd like to add - glaringly obvious mistakes. WOTW has the wires holding up the ships visable and in Independance Day at the start of the scene where Jeff Goldblum's character is inspired to make the virus he kicks over a bin clearly labelled "Props Department" :D

edit: ive actually just started watching Independance Day now as im in the mood to watch it and i noticed another little nod. When Goldblum is looking for his ex wifes number his laptop searches through telephone directories. If you pause the DVD at any point while the camera is on the search you'll see the names and places being searched have wierd names like "heresheis road" and "Asif Avenue" but in amongst them ive seen this evening is "Ulla Blvd" so theres another little nod :D

edit again :D : I'm watching the extended DVD of Independance Day and i forgot that the Curate from the book (rather than the more noble movie version of the character) is in there in an extended scene where the woman is driving through the ruins of Los Angeles looking for survivors. He's not an actual member of the clergy i dont think but the guy rants about the end of the world and God for about twenty seconds before the woman decides to leave him.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 3:37 pm 
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The reason why Emmeric and company used the US Marines is because the Air Force refused to allow the production comany is use their jets unless they refrained from using Area 51 in the film.

Since Area 51 was a vital part of the film, Emmeric decided to go with Marine jets (cgi) and pilots.

So, are there really aliens and back engineered technology at Area 51? :)


"Guns, Tanks, Bombs - They are like toys against them."


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 12:42 pm 
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Martian War Lord

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I loved both movies. It's only a bad thing that some American movies contain some selfish parts, since they find solutions in the movies that has problems involving the entire planet, as if they think they're the best (no pun intended - it's simply a opinion of mine).


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 1:58 pm 
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oever532 wrote:
I loved both movies. It's only a bad thing that some American movies contain some selfish parts, since they find solutions in the movies that has problems involving the entire planet, as if they think they're the best (no pun intended - it's simply a opinion of mine).




I concur.


"Guns, Tanks, Bombs - They are like toys against them."


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 3:57 pm 
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Martian War Lord

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KD8AFH wrote:
oever532 wrote:
I loved both movies. It's only a bad thing that some American movies contain some selfish parts, since they find solutions in the movies that has problems involving the entire planet, as if they think they're the best (no pun intended - it's simply a opinion of mine).




I concur.


The Martians tried to concur Earth and look what happened to them. [-(


Bah bah black sheap April diamond spheres, Rigsby, Rigsby, Eight sided Pears.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 4:00 pm 
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Martian War Lord

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They obviously thought since they had already eliminated the bacteria on Mars, that Earth wouldn't had them as well. A 'tiny' miscalculation for a 'superiour' race. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: 1953 War of the Worlds Similarities to Independence Day
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 7:48 am 
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The shape of the aircraft used in launching the nuke strike. Has anyone else been struck by the similarity in shape between the old Flying Wing and the Stealth bombers?


Yes, that was kinda cool to see.



The flying wing used in THE WAR OF THE WORLDS was the YB-49. It was an 8-engine jet designed and manufactured by Northrop Aircraft on orders from the United States Army Air Force (which became the USAF in Sept., 1947). The footage used in THE WAR OF THE WORLDS comes from a film commissioned by Northrop Aircraft in the late 1940s produced by Cascade Productions. The narration was by Paul Frees, who appears in THE WAR OF THE WORLDS. The actor who played the pilot of the YB-49 did so for the commissioned film as well as THE WAR OF THE WORLDS. He was James Lawry aka James Seay. He died in 1992 in California. You can see him as Kris Kringle's doctor in the 1947 film THE MIRACLE ON 34TH STREET.

2 YB-49s were built, created from the 4 propeller nacelle XB-35 body. The 2nd YB-49 crashed on June 5, 1948, killing its crew. The 1st was destroyed during high speed runway taxi tests. Another version of the plane, the YRB-49, had 2 engines in each wing, and one engine under each wing. It flew to Ontario Airport in California where it sat until 1953 at which time it was scrapped by the USAF. Remaining XB-35 bodies were scrapped by the USAF circa 1949, when the flying wing program was canceled. The story of the cancellation was controversial straight into the 1980s when Jack Northrop himself told the story to reporter Clete Roberts. Northrop died in Feb., 1981.

The B-2 bombers used in INDEPENDENCE DAY were designed and built by Northrop-Grumman Aircraft. Although they may not admit it, the B-2 is based on the YB-49 in many ways. The wing spans of both: 172.5 feet.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2005 1:45 pm 
Tripod King

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Quote:
The Martians tried to concur Earth and look what happened to them.


Lol! :)

Hmmm, some interesting similarities here. It just goes to show that War of the Worlds has amazing themes which have built the blocks for Modern Science Fiction.

However I agree about the American thing. Doesn't matter that the rest of the World is getting battered, but the Americans save the day!

Its like that film (Cant remember whats its called) about WWII where the Americans steal the Enigma machine from a German U-Boat. But, In real life, it was us, the Brits! :)


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2005 2:13 pm 
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Martian War Lord

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:roll: No surprises there then :wink:


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2005 2:16 pm 
Tripod King

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Yeah, I agree. We all know who the real heros are :)


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2005 2:18 pm 
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Martian War Lord

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We certainly do! My grandfather (who died in 1986, shortly after I was born) hid himself from the Germans to prevent he was taken to those work camps.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2005 2:27 pm 
Tripod King

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Cool story. Luckily, the Germans couldnt get across our 20 miles of water :)

Has anyone read a book called Hitler's Canary? Its about the Danish Jews. Apparantly, the Danes wouldn't give their Jews to the Germans, because they were still Danish, and managed to smuggle 98% of their Jews to safety in Neutral Sweden. Only 2% were sent to Concentration Camps.

Anyways, I know thats a bit off topic, but its a great story! :)


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2005 2:30 pm 
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Martian War Lord

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Do you mean he was taken to the work camps or he hid to prevent being taken to the work camps? :-k


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2005 2:31 pm 
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Martian War Lord

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He hid himself to prevent being taken to such camps. He used to run a butchery.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2005 3:07 pm 
Tripod King

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Cool. How did he stop being taken then?


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2005 3:09 pm 
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Martian War Lord

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He just hid himself somewhere I thought, or he could have given some false personalities, I really don't remember, but he wasn't taken to Germany back then, anyway.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2005 3:11 pm 
Tripod King

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Cool. He was very lucky! :)


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2005 3:15 pm 
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Martian War Lord

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He was indeed. My other grandparents (who are still alive) were born in 1933, but they went through WWII. They lived at the country side and survived the hungerwinter of '44/'45 the Netherlands had to suffer in the main cities.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2005 6:26 pm 
Tripod King

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Cool. You have a cool Family History!

My Great Great Grandfather was at Rorke's Drift and survived. And my great grandad's cousin was in Ypres. :)


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