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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 10:14 pm 
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If I understand correctly, Wells wrote his short story "The Crystal Egg" a year before WotW. In the Egg story, we get a big glimpse of Wells' vision of the martians on Mars, but w/o any hint of malice.<br /><br />He seemed to be describing several different types of Martians. The winged ones, the hopping ones and the ape-like bipeds.<br /><br />The bipeds get mentioned in WotW as food for the trip. The martians on earth don't appear to be the winged ones. Maybe the winged ones sent the sturdier hopping ones (warrior/worker class) to do the subjigating of the earth?<br /><br />Send in the thugs?<br />


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 10:29 pm 
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But in the short story 'The Star'(also written before WOTW, I think) There does seem to be some malice. The Martians see how vulnerable we are.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 10:40 pm 
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<!--QuoteBegin-Lonesome Crow+Mar 9 2005, 05:29 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Lonesome Crow @ Mar 9 2005, 05:29 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->But in the short story 'The Star'(also written before WOTW, I think) There does seem to be some malice. The Martians see how vulnerable we are.<br />[right][snapback]1931[/snapback][/right]<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Really? I thought "The Star" was a good bit -after- WotW. <br /><br />But, too, the earth is pretty well trashed just by the star alone. WotW was set in still-tidy earth. Maybe The Star was a sort of almost-sequel. <br /> Martian thugs fail in 1898<br /> Star almost wipes out civilization (in 1910 or something?) with Martians watching<br /> Stage set for a second attempt by Martian thugs?


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 11:01 pm 
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<!--QuoteBegin-gypsywlf+Mar 9 2005, 10:40 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(gypsywlf @ Mar 9 2005, 10:40 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Really? I thought "The Star" was a good bit -after- WotW.  <br />[right][snapback]1932[/snapback][/right]<br />[/quote]<br />Yes you're right I've just checked and 'The Star' was written in 1913 :blush:


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2005 1:22 am 
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<!--QuoteBegin-Lonesome Crow+Mar 9 2005, 06:01 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Lonesome Crow @ Mar 9 2005, 06:01 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Yes you're right I've just checked and 'The Star' was written in 1913 :blush:<br />[right][snapback]1933[/snapback][/right]<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Even though later, The Star repeated the theme of man's civilization being pretty easily wiped out by larger forces. In the case of The Star, it was a 'natural' cause instead of at the hands (tentacles?) of another species.<br /><br />Still, what do you make of the flying critters (vs the hopping ones) in The Crystal Egg?


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2005 12:35 pm 
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<!--QuoteBegin-gypsywlf+Mar 10 2005, 01:22 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(gypsywlf @ Mar 10 2005, 01:22 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin--><br />Still, what do you make of the flying critters (vs the hopping ones) in The Crystal Egg?<br />[right][snapback]1936[/snapback][/right]<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Can I chip in here guys? Oh why thankyou.<br /><br />I only just read The Crystal Egg due to it being posted somewhere on the forum. The winged Martians really intreagued me. I kind of think that Wells my have not icluded them in War of the worlds because over the period inbetween writing The Crystal Egg and War of The worlds, he refined his idea and cut them out completely. However, if both exist in Wells imagination during the writing of WOTW, why did he omit them? I don't think that the Flightless Martians that are in the story are thug class, I just don't get that feeling. Maybe the winged ones are young martians which lose their wings as they grow older. Or another species that are below in status to the others. Maybe their wings would be crushed in Earth's atmosphere and couldn't come for that reason.<br />The ape like things are obviously the food and the Egg was how they had observed us from Mars to scrutinize us and draw their plans against us. <br />I'd like to see a painting or drawing of one of these winged ones.<br />Wish we could ask H.G.<br />


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2005 1:48 pm 
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<!--QuoteBegin-Loz+Mar 10 2005, 07:35 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Loz @ Mar 10 2005, 07:35 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Can I chip in here guys? Oh why thankyou.<br /><br />... I don't think that the Flightless Martians that are in the story are thug class, I just don't get that feeling. Maybe the winged ones are young martians which lose their wings as they grow older. Or another species that are below in status to the others. Maybe their wings would be crushed in Earth's atmosphere and couldn't come for that reason....<br />[right][snapback]1948[/snapback][/right]<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Loz,<br /><br />Chip in, by all means :)<br /><br />Wells doesn't really dwell on explaining them in Crystal Egg, that's for sure. It's just a prolonged peek at Mars. Maybe I jumped to a conclusion, a bit, with the thug thing, but it seemed like the flightless ones were doing the manual labor (herding), while the flying ones were doing the observing. Guess I thought that made the winged ones, what with all the intell gathering, seemed more like the 'brains' of the culture, while the food herders did not.<br /><br />Wells' charcters speculate that maybe the can put on and take off the wings, IIRC, so maybe they're really just one species, but with 'appliances'. But, I was also taking a hint from his earlier Morlocks and Eloi schism.<br /><br />Seemed to fit, too, that the brainy winged ones wouldn't fare well on earth's stronger gravity, so sent their sturdy underclass to clear the way. A bit analogous to the make up of the infamous "Black Line" in Tasmania not beng made up of scientists and MPs, etc., but of more 'regular' worker folk.<br /><br />Still, I'm very thankful for whoever it was that posted those links to the etexts. Very good stuff!


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2005 4:52 pm 
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right thats it, ive got to read these books now :D are they available to read online like War Of The Worlds is?


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2005 12:51 am 
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<!--QuoteBegin-Leper Messiah+Mar 10 2005, 04:52 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Leper Messiah @ Mar 10 2005, 04:52 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->right thats it, ive got to read these books now :D  are they available to read online like War Of The Worlds is?<br />[right][snapback]1968[/snapback][/right]<br />[/quote]<br />You could try here <a href='http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/etcbin/toccer-new2?id=WelCrys.sgm&images=images/modeng&data=/texts/english/modeng/parsed&tag=public&part=1&division=div1' target='_blank'>The Crystal Egg</a><br /><a href='http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/etexts/y3819.htm' target='_blank'>The Star</a>


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2005 1:58 am 
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good work cheers :D


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2005 3:42 pm 
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'The Star' was actually first published in 1897, not 1913, and is thus contemporaneous with WotW.<br /><br />Interestingly, it, too, features an astronomer called Ogilvy.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2005 6:13 pm 
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<!--QuoteBegin-McTodd+Mar 12 2005, 10:42 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(McTodd @ Mar 12 2005, 10:42 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->'The Star' was actually first published in 1897, not 1913, and is thus contemporaneous with WotW.<br />[right][snapback]2032[/snapback][/right]<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Interesting. It shows up as both 1913 and 1897.<br />Note this site: <a href='http://fan.500ml.org/wells/works.php' target='_blank'>Wells List</a><br />Crystal Egg AND Star were then both the year before WotW?<br />Egg makes sense then, as a prequel to WotW. Star, however, wipes us out (almost) with a planetary near-miss and the Martians just watch. Not quite the narrator's world in WotW


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2005 8:29 pm 
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Hm, that may be just the title of that collection - the site doesn't list the dates of publication of individual short stories, merely dates of collections. Or he could simply be wrong.<br /><br />According to various books of mine, 'The Star' was published in 1897.<br /><br />And have a look at this site:<br /><br /><a href='http://www.hycyber.com/SF/complete_wells.html' target='_blank'>A Complete List of H G Wells' Short Stories</a><br /><br />Not only are dates given, but also where the stories first appeared before being collected. So for 'The Star', we find:<br /><br />The Star, 1897. (Graphic, December, 1897.)<br /><br />And first anthologised in 1899, in 'Tales of Space and Time'.<br /><br />Don't always trust what you find on the net - at least not without cross-referencing.<br /><br />Here endeth the lesson. Go in peace, my son... :smoking:


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2005 8:46 pm 
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<!--QuoteBegin-gypsywlf+Mar 12 2005, 06:13 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(gypsywlf @ Mar 12 2005, 06:13 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Interesting. It shows up as both 1913 and 1897.<br />Note this site: <a href='http://fan.500ml.org/wells/works.php' target='_blank'>Wells List</a><br />Crystal Egg AND Star were then both the year before WotW?<br />Egg makes sense then, as a prequel to WotW.  Star, however, wipes us out (almost) with a planetary near-miss and the Martians just watch.  Not quite the narrator's world in WotW<br />[right][snapback]2036[/snapback][/right]<br />[/quote]<br /><br />The Star was published in December 1897, The Crystal Egg in May 1897, and being short stories were probably written shortly before publication.<br /><br />But don't forget that although the novelisation of WotW appeared in 1898, it was serialised from April 1897 in Pearson's. Wells may have been working on it as early as late 1896. He may have written The Star straight after WotW (the final part of the serial was September 1897, but I don't know if he had submitted it in complete form before April of that year, or whether he worked on episodes as it appeared). Be that as it may, all three stories appeared in 1897.<br /><br />1895 to 1898 saw an extraordinary burst of activity from Wells, with the publication of the following scientific romances:<br /><br />The Time Machine<br />The Island of Dr Moreau<br />The Invisible Man<br />The War of the Worlds<br /><br />Plus 25 ( :shock: ) short stories in the same period.<br /><br />Gor blimey guv, what a trouper!


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 9:43 pm 
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Thanks for that, I thought I was right about the 1897 publication, until I checked in the back of my copy of WOTW where it said 'The Star' 1913. But if that is just the date of the compilation of short stories then that makes sence.<br />Cheers.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 1:09 pm 
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<!--QuoteBegin-gypsywlf+Mar 10 2005, 01:48 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(gypsywlf @ Mar 10 2005, 01:48 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Loz,<br /><br />Chip in, by all means :)<br /><br />Wells doesn't really dwell on explaining them in Crystal Egg, that's for sure. It's just a prolonged peek at Mars.  Maybe I jumped to a conclusion, a bit, with the thug thing, but it seemed like the flightless ones were doing the manual labor (herding), while the flying ones were doing the observing.  Guess I thought that made the winged ones, what with all the intell gathering, seemed more like the 'brains' of the culture, while the food herders did not.<br /><br />Wells' charcters speculate that maybe the can put on and take off the wings, IIRC, so maybe they're really just one species, but with 'appliances'.  But, I was also taking a hint from his earlier Morlocks and Eloi schism.<br /><br />Seemed to fit, too, that the brainy winged ones wouldn't fare well on earth's stronger gravity, so sent their sturdy underclass to clear the way. A bit analogous to the make up of the infamous "Black Line" in Tasmania not beng made up of scientists and MPs, etc., but of more 'regular' worker folk.<br /><br />Still, I'm very thankful for whoever it was that posted those links to the etexts. Very good stuff!<br />[right][snapback]1953[/snapback][/right]<br />[/quote]<br /><br />The underclass thing is hard to follow when what you are proposing as the underclass is almost all brain, and a very large brain at that.<br />


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 5:03 pm 
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<!--QuoteBegin-Loz+Mar 14 2005, 08:09 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Loz @ Mar 14 2005, 08:09 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The underclass thing is hard to follow when what you are proposing as the underclass is almost all brain, and a very large brain at that.<br />[right][snapback]2061[/snapback][/right]<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Yes, I suppose, but was thinking of it in martian terms. Even their worker-class types as being way far brainier than humans. No reason why martian thugs would be as dim as our human thugs. <br /><br />IIRC, the winged martians in Crystal Egg, were also mostly brain.<br />


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 9:08 pm 
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We could speculate forever on this one. I suppose the fun is coming up with your own solutions to loose ends and seeing if others agree or whatever. You put forward strong ideas here and I enjoy them. For me though, the winged Martians spoil thing slightly and I'm not too sure why.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2005 3:22 pm 
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<!--QuoteBegin-Loz+Mar 14 2005, 04:08 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Loz @ Mar 14 2005, 04:08 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->We could speculate forever on this one. I suppose the fun is coming up with your own solutions to loose ends and seeing if others agree or whatever. <br />[right][snapback]2090[/snapback][/right]<br />[/quote]<br />True enough. Not like there's ONE right answer. It is fun to speculate.<br /><!--QuoteBegin-Loz+Mar 14 2005, 04:08 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Loz @ Mar 14 2005, 04:08 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->...For me though, the winged Martians spoil thing slightly and I'm not too sure why.<br />[right][snapback]2090[/snapback][/right]<br />[/quote]<br />The winged martians took me by surprise. Guess I was used to my mental image of the sluggish monster. In a way, I think I was finding some consolation in the martians being slow-moving. Slow monsters aren't as scary -- like Steve McQueen vs. The Blob. Just stay out of their way.<br /><br />The idea of quick, flying blood-sucking brain beings struck me as kinda -more- creepy. Could just be me, though. <br />:o


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2005 9:33 pm 
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there is something so Victorian about them somehow.<br /><br />The thing about the blob though was that the more it ate the bigger it got until one day it would engulf the whole planet and there would be nowere to hide.<br /><br />I wish we could ask Wells about the winged Martians.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2005 9:46 pm 
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There is no reason to suppose 'The Crystal Egg', 'The Star' and 'WOTW' are related stories. They might have nothing to do with each other and trying to work out which Martian from 'The Crystal Egg' is the one in 'TWOTW' is probably futile. :blink: <br />But still its entertaining. :)


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