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PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 6:32 pm 
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Okay, while viewing and re-viewing the Pendragon trailer to look at Big Ben, I noticed more the short clip of a woman in a torn and ravaged dress, screaming hysterically while martian mechanical arms sort of "air maul" her.<br /><br />I don't recall THAT in the book either. Did my pre-teen self just not notice such an obvious "they're after our women" scene in the book? I really don't recall it from later readings either.<br /><br />Is it in there too? Perhaps implied, like the blasting of Ben?


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 7:36 pm 
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No not in the book that but it's meant to be a victim of the Martians' feeding. That seems most likely anyway. In the book the Journalist sees a man being fed upon. Maybe they've changed it to a woman. Which is okay I supose.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 7:50 pm 
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That's probably it. The arms around her look the same as their version of the handling machines.<br /><br />I keep trying to figure out if she's the singer from earlier in the trailer.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 9:15 pm 
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<!--QuoteBegin-Thunder Child+Mar 3 2005, 02:50 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Thunder Child @ Mar 3 2005, 02:50 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->That's probably it.  The arms around her look the same as their version of the handling machines.<br />[right][snapback]1703[/snapback][/right]<br />[/quote]<br /><br />I suspect you (both) could be right. The 'feeding' scene was in the book, but not as sensational as the clip shows. The simple substituting of a woman for what I recall was a middle-aged man, would be no big deal. <br /><br />However, the book didn't dwell on the horror, nor turn into an almost-rape scene. The movie clip, with terrified, squirming young-ish woman, partially 'exposed' through ravaged dress, really smacks of more modern movie fodder -- a sort of scene that modern audiences seem to take to, but which Wells' did not indulge in.<br /><br />I suppose we'll need to allow our two directors a bit of slack (and forgivness?) that way.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 9:23 pm 
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May God Forgive Them! :D


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 11:07 pm 
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There's no great mystery here. Mars Needs Women.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 11:20 pm 
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They can have mine!!!!!!!!!!!!


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 10:53 am 
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The woman making all that fuss in pendragons film is probebly just one of the people the martians are going to eat in the 'pit' scene.Even though its not directly mentioned in the book it is safe to say that that scene could be written in to the film.Remember..............the writer is not 'peeping' through the hole 24/7 and there are days when it mentions in the book when the writer stays away from the hole all day long including the curate as well.With this in mind there would be lots of things that both men could miss or be unaware of as to what is going on in the pit.I would say that this lends slightly more scope to exploration of the pit scenes as far as a film maker is concerned but obviously staying within the boundries of the chapter. :)


Bloody Martians nicked my bible..!


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 11:31 am 
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Here here!


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 12:30 pm 
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How would they sell the movie in Japan without the obligatory tentacle-shagging scene :) ?<br />


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 2:24 pm 
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<!--QuoteBegin-gypsywlf+Mar 3 2005, 09:15 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(gypsywlf @ Mar 3 2005, 09:15 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I suppose we'll need to allow our two directors a bit of slack (and forgivness?) that way.<br />[right][snapback]1707[/snapback][/right]<br />[/quote]<br /><br />of course because this is in the same league as non martians and sleeper cells...


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 3:47 pm 
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<!--QuoteBegin-Leper Messiah+Mar 4 2005, 09:24 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Leper Messiah @ Mar 4 2005, 09:24 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->of course because this is in the same league as non martians and sleeper cells...<br />[right][snapback]1747[/snapback][/right]<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Welllll, what we seem to have, is a variable scale of what deviations from the 'pure' text are acceptable. <br /><br />At one end, are the ultra-purists who long for only the exact words used by Wells and exact word-picture scenes (if Wells didn't directly describe it, it doesn't belong in the movie).<br /><br />At the other extreme, are the ultra-accepting for whom even a movie like ID4 qualifies as a 'good' retelling of Wells' WotW.<br /><br />Between those two extremes, seem to be the majority of us -- at various points along that line.<br /><br />Some deviations from the pure text, we are comfortable with, but some go 'too far' for comfort. (For example, I'm not all that bothered by the main character having a daughter flee with him, but tend to feel annoyed by the inclusion of a ravaging 'they're eating our semi-naked women' scene. Others are miffed at the daughter, but just fine with the ravaging.)<br /><br />Chalk it up to personal taste, I suppose, but most all of us seem to be willing to allow -some- deviation. It's not such a black-and-white issue. Personally, I'm delighted that TWO studios are doing the story and both appear to be -trying- (variable scale) to follow the original (more or less). We'll each be the judges of whether they went 'too far' or 'not far enough.'


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 3:57 pm 
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actually i see it very black and white:<br /><br />I doubt the Martians were sexist, its likely they caught and ate women as well as the man and the lad the Writer sees killed, and its hardly make or break to the story.<br /><br />The daughter is an utterly invented character thats been made central to the story.<br /><br />one is highly likely to have occured within the story, and the other is a completely fabricated element of the story that has been made essential to the plot. Which one matters?


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 5:25 pm 
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<!--QuoteBegin-Leper Messiah+Mar 4 2005, 10:57 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Leper Messiah @ Mar 4 2005, 10:57 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->actually i see it very black and white:<br /><br />[right][snapback]1761[/snapback][/right]<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Oh? You've already allowed for deviations -- a bit of gray. <br /><br />You have a set of criteria by which you judge deviations acceptable or not. I imagine everyone sees 'black and white' too, by the criteria -they- have developed. Others may not exactly share your criteria, but they still have some. My black isn't necessarily YOUR black, etc.<br /><br />Some of your "acceptable deviations" may not be so acceptable to others, and vice versa.<br /><br />What good comes from branding each other as 'heretics'?


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 7:12 pm 
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I can't see any pink or purple. Does this help?


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 7:35 pm 
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<!--QuoteBegin-Loz+Mar 4 2005, 02:12 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Loz @ Mar 4 2005, 02:12 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I can't see any pink or purple. Does this help?<br />[right][snapback]1769[/snapback][/right]<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Well, I'm afraid it probably means a career in interior decorating might not pan out, but not to worry. :)


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 8:01 pm 
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Hines says it would be as close to the book as possible, and changes a man into a woman. Transvestite? Possibly. I dont like the looks of that scene, it looks like a desperate try to add nudity.<br /><br />Naruto does not have tentacle shagging scenes, neither does Spirited Away or Princess Mononoke :P<br /><br />Mars got alot of women. Do you really think "the planet is dying" is enough reason to invade earth? Nope. They try to prove something...


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1. Take a small wooden toy wheel (cheap in hobby stores)
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3. Figure the rest out yourself.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 8:17 pm 
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You know maybe the Martians open a health farm in this version and what we are seeing here is a woman recieving colonic irrigation.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 8:25 pm 
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<!--QuoteBegin-The Improved Trog+Mar 4 2005, 03:01 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(The Improved Trog @ Mar 4 2005, 03:01 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->... I dont like the looks of that scene, it looks like a desperate try to add nudity.<br /><br />[right][snapback]1775[/snapback][/right]<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Quite so. Could be, of course, that this sensationalist semi-nudie scene is one of those not-in-the-movie trailer things, designed to hook us and get us to buy a ticket. Only a proper viewing will tell.<br /><br />But seriously, back to the notion of blackness and whiteness, I guess I'm not as willing to pooh-pooh the Spielberg production, nor bow at the altar of Hines, w/o having seen either. The Pal film, while 'impure' for being in 1950s America, etc. was still (IMHO) a fair adapatation. Yes, the screenwriter added non-1898 characters and situations befitting the 50s, but overall I thought it captured the spirit of Wells WotW. (ID4 was like a photocopy of a photocopy of a photocopy, etc. You could kinda tell what it was supposed to be, but image quality was quite degraded)<br /><br />The Pendragon film is likely to be valuable as trying to be closer to the book -- but it can only be closer, not equal. Spielberg may be a bit less close (as was Pal's) but that doesn't automatically make it reekin' garbage. (could turn out to be, like the 2002 Time Machine was, but we don't know yet)<br /><br />The mere presence of Fanning's character does not, in my book, automatically doom the film to utter trash heaps. The Silvia character in Pal's film was certainly non-Wells, but her existence didn't totally trash the effort. The semi-nude victim scene would mar the Hines effort, in my book, but would not automatically totally trash his effort.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 8:39 pm 
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One of the things wrong with the Pal film version us that religion becomes a star of the story. The preist who bravely gives his life in order to speak with the Martians and all the folks huddled in churches and singing together and praying at the end.<br />Wells gives religion a bit of a kick in the book. The Curate, a man of God falls apart and becomes a loathsome character. This was an attack on religion by Wells.<br />I like the film because I like Sci Fi and its a great Sci Fi film, but it shouldn't of messed with it on stuff like that. But 50's America was never going to tolerate an attack on the church was it?


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 8:49 pm 
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<!--QuoteBegin-gypsywlf+Mar 4 2005, 05:25 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(gypsywlf @ Mar 4 2005, 05:25 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Oh? You've already allowed for deviations -- a bit of gray. <br /><br />You have a set of criteria by which you judge deviations acceptable or not.  I imagine everyone sees 'black and white' too, by the criteria -they- have developed. Others may not exactly share your criteria, but they still have some. My black isn't necessarily YOUR black, etc.<br /><br />Some of your "acceptable deviations" may not be so acceptable to others, and vice versa.<br /><br />What good comes from branding each other as 'heretics'?<br />[right][snapback]1766[/snapback][/right]<br />[/quote]<br /><br />i used that word did i? ill go find all the quotes of me saying it shall i?<br /><br />quite simple really: minor scene which is extremely plausible within the story or massive reinvention the plot, which matters?


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 9:23 pm 
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<!--QuoteBegin-Loz+Mar 4 2005, 03:39 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Loz @ Mar 4 2005, 03:39 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->One of the things wrong with the Pal film version us that religion becomes a star of the story.....<br /><br /> But 50's America was never going to tolerate an attack on the church was it?<br />[right][snapback]1780[/snapback][/right]<br />[/quote]<br /><br />I wouldn't go so far as to say 'star' of the Pal film, but certainly not hushed up, as would be the case in today's ultra-religion-free PC world.<br /><br />I don't know that I'd have characterized Wells' text as anti-religion, however. With the Curate, he was certainly slapping the human side of religiosity (perhaps the Anglican church?), but Wells text didn't come across as anti-God. After all, the narrator himself cites a Biblical parallel (the armies of Sennacharib being slain before Jerusalem) and even near the end says that the martians were slain, "by the humblest of things that God, in his wisdom, has put upon this earth."<br /><br />In that vein, the Pal film isn't so much a deviation from Wells, as a period-induced (cold war 50s) boosting of a minor bit within Wells' text. The Pal film didn't have to reverse an anti-God element in Wells, so much as it played God up more than Wells did.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 9:43 pm 
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<!--QuoteBegin-Leper Messiah+Mar 4 2005, 03:49 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Leper Messiah @ Mar 4 2005, 03:49 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->i used that word did i? ill go find all the quotes of me saying it shall i?...<br />[right][snapback]1782[/snapback][/right]<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Well, if we wanted to get all sticklerly, I could point out that I didn't say I was quoting -you-, I just used quote marks to set apart a phrase...but that path leads only to heat, not light.<br /><br />You have identified a deviation from Wells' text -- the woman being ravaged -- and have accepted it. (all tentatively, of course, as the movie itself hasn't been seen) Hence, an acceptable deviation. You have a criteria in play: scenes not mentioned in the 1898 text, but plausible, are acceptable.<br /><br />An ultra-purist would likely deem -anything- outside of the pure 1898 text, as heretical.<br /><br />Me? I'm not so sure that the presence of the Fanning character necessarily foredooms the Spielberg film. Oh sure, he has plenty of trendy ways to botch the whole thing, but the mere presence of a character not-in-the-1898-text, is (at this point, yet) a deviation I could accept.<br /><br />Perhaps I've missed some insider secret stuff? What does the daughter do in the film? How does she change the plot from a man fleeing the martians/aliens who almost take over the earth, to something else?


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 1:09 am 
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Several members seem shocked to see a woman stripped half naked in the Pendragon clip, I posted a site-address last week showing a couple of pictures from WOTW, one of which showed a Martian feeding off a half naked man, there where many comments on how creepy the picture was but no one seemed bothered that the man had been stripped :huh: strange that you accept a man being stripped but get all coy when its a woman :P


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 2:22 am 
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<!--QuoteBegin-Lonesome Crow+Mar 4 2005, 08:09 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Lonesome Crow @ Mar 4 2005, 08:09 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Several members seem shocked to see a woman stripped half naked in the Pendragon clip, I posted a site-address last week showing a couple of pictures from WOTW, one of which showed a Martian feeding off a half naked man, there where many comments on how creepy the picture was but no one seemed bothered that the man had been stripped :huh: strange that you accept a man being stripped but get all coy when its a woman :P<br />[right][snapback]1790[/snapback][/right]<br />[/quote]<br /><br />In the painting I recall seeing, the male victim was bare-chested (which men tend to get away with socially, much better than the ladies), but I suspect it's not just the amount of visible flesh that's being reacted to. The moving image, of the terrified woman, is just going to carry far more implied meaning (to audiences), than a still painting of what could well be a dead (or nearly so) guy. <br /><br />Emotional meanings aren't always 'even' in the PC world of 'equality.'


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