Eve Of The War :: View topic - Backward Interlects

are you also backward if you invade and destroy civilisation with overwhelming and unstoppable power?

I think there's a lot of things about the Martians that made sense 100+ years ago and don't now. The notion of mainlining blood from another species for sustenance seems a bit iffy, as does an ecosystem that hasn't developed microorganisms. (Even if they don't have putrefying bacteria, one would imagine there would be some kind of microscopic life that would have made them more wary about potential risks.)At any rate if the Martians were studying us keenly with minds imeasurably superiour to our own as Wells tells us, then they would have picked up upon the fact that we do have bacteria here on Earth and it can kill you.It is probable that every world abundant with life has bacteria and virusis, and if we visited any of them or they us then we'd have no imunities to one anothers microscopic life forms.So any inteligent being exposing themselves to the atmosphere of an alien planet has to be crazy never mind a backward interlect.

Thunder Child wrote:

I think there's a lot of things about the Martians that made sense 100+ years ago and don't now. The notion of mainlining blood from another species for sustenance seems a bit iffy, as does an ecosystem that hasn't developed microorganisms. (Even if they don't have putrefying bacteria, one would imagine there would be some kind of microscopic life that would have made them more wary about potential risks.)At any rate if the Martians were studying us keenly with minds imeasurably superiour to our own as Wells tells us, then they would have picked up upon the fact that we do have bacteria here on Earth and it can kill you.<br />It is probable that every world abundant with life has bacteria and virusis, and if we visited any of them or they us then we'd have no imunities to one anothers microscopic life forms. So any inteligent being exposing themselves to the atmosphere of an alien planet has to be crazy never mind a [b]backward interlect.

Well, its like observing a chicken laying an egg and then deciding to invade its barn.

Well, its like observing a chicken laying an egg and then deciding to invade its barn. No it isn't Imagine your suprise if you started laying eggs, youd think it impossible

It is!

I remember an article in SFX magazine a few years ago that put forward the point of view that although Earth-based bacteria does change & mutate, and even occasionally jumps species (a recent example being bird flu in the Far East jumping from childrens to humans), ultimately it could only evolve to infect and attack Earth-based lifeforms. A lifeform that was alien to Earth would therefore be safe, as the bacteria just wouldn't recognise it, or even begin to know how to infect it. As the author of the article put it, 'Earth-based bacteria would no more try to attack a Martian than it would try to infect a lump of coal'. An interesting theory.

Author:	Loz [ Wed Mar 02, 2005 9:57 pm ]
Post subject:
Leper Messiah wrote: are you also backward if you invade and destroy civilisation with overwhelming and unstoppable power? Especially without getting your jabs first!

Author:	Loz [ Thu Mar 10, 2005 8:43 pm ]
Post subject:
Thunder Child wrote: I think there's a lot of things about the Martians that made sense 100+ years ago and don't now. The notion of mainlining blood from another species for sustenance seems a bit iffy, as does an ecosystem that hasn't developed microorganisms. (Even if they don't have putrefying bacteria, one would imagine there would be some kind of microscopic life that would have made them more wary about potential risks.)At any rate if the Martians were studying us keenly with minds imeasurably superiour to our own as Wells tells us, then they would have picked up upon the fact that we do have bacteria here on Earth and it can kill you.It is probable that every world abundant with life has bacteria and virusis, and if we visited any of them or they us then we'd have no imunities to one anothers microscopic life forms.So any inteligent being exposing themselves to the atmosphere of an alien planet has to be crazy never mind a backward interlect.

Author:	The Curate [ Fri Mar 11, 2005 10:14 am ]
Post subject:
Loz wrote: Thunder Child wrote: I think there's a lot of things about the Martians that made sense 100+ years ago and don't now. The notion of mainlining blood from another species for sustenance seems a bit iffy, as does an ecosystem that hasn't developed microorganisms. (Even if they don't have putrefying bacteria, one would imagine there would be some kind of microscopic life that would have made them more wary about potential risks.)At any rate if the Martians were studying us keenly with minds imeasurably superiour to our own as Wells tells us, then they would have picked up upon the fact that we do have bacteria here on Earth and it can kill you.<br />It is probable that every world abundant with life has bacteria and virusis, and if we visited any of them or they us then we'd have no imunities to one anothers microscopic life forms. So any inteligent being exposing themselves to the atmosphere of an alien planet has to be crazy never mind a [b]backward interlect. A very good observasion Loz

Author:	Leper Messiah [ Fri Mar 11, 2005 10:25 am ]
Post subject:
well, maybe theres a point in it, but i think youre judging them on a modern basis that Wells didnt have to judge them by. i still very much doubt he designed them to be backward.

Author:	Loz [ Mon Mar 14, 2005 12:05 pm ]
Post subject:
No you right he didn't so the problem in retelling the story now in film mode is, if you stay completely faithful, then the Martians will come across as a little daft to say the least in exposing themselves to what turns out to be a poisonous atmosphere, when we know that we ourselves would not.<br />Or you change things to smarten the Martians up.<br />I think you keep it the same and tell the story as a Victorian tale, but modern audiances might not buy into it. Speilberg says he's made some sort of change to the end of his version because he wants to surprise us. I think its because he doesn't believe in the ending. <br />

Eve Of The War http://www.focusgaming.co.uk/eveofthewar/

Backward Interlects http://www.focusgaming.co.uk/eveofthewar/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=135	Page 5 of 8

Author:	Leper Messiah [ Mon Mar 14, 2005 12:48 pm ]
Post subject:
swing and a miss, there is no possible reason for changing the ending, the Martians come from a culture that due to their massive advances in medical science has no comprehension of illness or bacteria, its not impossible, just difficult to comprehend because such a human society has never existed, in that way the readership is backward, not the Martians. Neither is it necessary to change the story so modern audiences will buy into it, that is demonstrable by the large number of readers WOTW has.

Author:	Loz [ Mon Mar 14, 2005 8:17 pm ]
Post subject:
Wells does not say that the martians come from a world where bacteria has never existed, the narrator speculates about it. The idea is out of date. The fact that a Victorian could think up the demise of the Martians but that the Martians could not, is where the hole is. This is part of my grreat love for the book, the fact that it has dated. I love dated Sci Fi, and War of the Worlds is my favourite book. A filmaker should embrace all of the dated ideas within the story, its part of what would distinguish it from recent Sci Fi films.<br />I understand what you are saying about they never having come across bacteria so have no comprehension of it.<br />But they are on the next planet in the same solar system, they are biological, can use our blood as food and they have been scrutinizing us remember? Watching us for who knows how many years? During their studies of Earth they would have come across our bacteria. They would have detected decomposition, and sickness in animals and people. They would have noticed something very alien to them and feared it. They would not have come.<br />

Author:	Leper Messiah [ Mon Mar 14, 2005 8:43 pm ]
Post subject:
Well, its like observing a chicken laying an egg and then deciding to invade its barn. Imagine your suprise if you started laying eggs, youd think it impossible <br /><br />The Martians, having had no study for so long of bacteria may very well have presumed the effects of decomposition and sickness to be purely a Terran matter to which they were immune as they never suffered such symptoms.

Author:	Loz [ Mon Mar 14, 2005 9:02 pm ]
Post subject:
Leper Messiah wrote: Well, its like observing a chicken laying an egg and then deciding to invade its barn. No it isn't. Imagine your suprise if you started laying eggs, youd think it impossible It is!

Author:	The Improved Trog [ Mon Mar 14, 2005 9:25 pm ]
Post subject:
Actually, it is mentioned that they did have bacterias, but they where exterminated for ages ago. Also, the attack is made in a hurry and they probably thought that the terran bacterias was not evolved enough to make any effect- which was an unfortunate scientific mistake by them, but look at all mistakes in space technology and stuff lately- and not to mention new bacterias that are evolving these days, the martians probably killed the very origin of them(probably why mars is dying, perhaps).

Author:	Fenris [ Mon Mar 14, 2005 11:02 pm ]
Post subject:
I remember an article in SFX magazine a few years ago that put forward the point of view that although Earth-based bacteria does change & mutate, and even occasionally jumps species (a recent example being bird flu in the Far East jumping from chickens to humans), ultimately it could only evolve to infect and attack Earth-based lifeforms. <br /><br />A lifeform that was alien to Earth would therefore be safe, as the bacteria just wouldn't recognise it, or even begin to know how to infect it. As the author of the article put it, 'Earth-based bacteria would no more try to attack a Martian than it would try to infect a lump of coal'.<br /><br />An interesting theory.

Author:	Leper Messiah [ Mon Mar 14, 2005 11:05 pm ]
Post subject:
Leper Messiah wrote: Well, its like observing a chicken laying an egg and then deciding to invade its barn. No it isn't Imagine your suprise if you started laying eggs, youd think it impossible It is! well indeed it is impossible, and that was the same assuredness that the Martians had when they launched their attack. Dying a human death would seem the hight of impossibility

Author:	Loz [ Tue Mar 15, 2005 8:16 am ]
Post subject:
Fenris wrote: I remember an article in SFX magazine a few years ago that put forward the point of view that although Earth-based bacteria does change & mutate, and even occasionally jumps species (a recent example being bird flu in the Far East jumping from childrens to humans), ultimately it could only evolve to infect and attack Earth-based lifeforms. A lifeform that was alien to Earth would therefore be safe, as the bacteria just wouldn't recognise it, or even begin to know how to infect it. As the author of the article put it, 'Earth-based bacteria would no more try to attack a Martian than it would try to infect a lump of coal'. An interesting theory. This makes sense. But maybe Martian and Earth life are related.

Author:	Butters [ Thu Apr 07, 2005 4:15 am ]
Post subject:
Regarding the Martians technology or intentions. It clear at the point and time the book was based they where far superior in every way.<br /><br />Crashing may not be the best way to land.<br />Tripods may not be the most stable mobile constructions. We know wheels are better.<br /><br />However a large part of warfare and any compaign in physiological. <br />Meaning you can suppress your ememy through intimidation and fear. I'll tell you, if i saw a 100 foot tripod advancing towards me, I would not stick around.<br /><br />We have seen it in our own history.<br />-An army of British Red Coats.<br />-Greek and Roamn armies 100,000 + strong.<br />-American Shock and Awe campaigns.<br /><br />All these are designed to cause the ememy to lose heart and not want to fight superior numbers. To run and hide is the best way to survive.<br /><br />Maybe Mars had drained all resources and could only muster an all out win/lose attack.<br /><br /> <br /><br /><br /><br />

Author:	Leper Messiah [ Thu Apr 07, 2005 2:39 pm ]
Post subject:
actually for an attack from a race with limited resources like the Martians, invading just Britain at first would still be a sound tactic as once secured, the island would be easier to defend while using Earths resources to increase their forces. Sheild technology isnt necessarily required either, the black smoke could still deal with ground based defences and the heat ray could surely be used to great effect against airborne opposition, especially once the flying Machines were introduced.

Author:	Loz [ Thu Apr 07, 2005 7:02 pm ]
Post subject:
I don't know about that because now America for instance could pepper Britain with thousands of nuclear warheads, that's after peppering it with chemical and biological weapons. So sheilds would be necassary. They wouldn't need air craft, missile technology would be enough. Even with sheild technology like in the Pal movie 2000 nuclear missiles hitting Britain all at one would seriously f*k them up.<br />After America had hit the island China and Russia could rain down a whole SHT load more.<br />

Author:	Alland [ Sat May 21, 2005 12:49 am ]
Post subject:
Regarding the comments on Martian technology, I'd like to make the following points: The flying machine must have been in use on Mars already. You forget that Earth has stronger gravity than Mars and probably a different atmosphere. That would tend to play hob with Martian flying machines and pilots until they'd undergone extensive retraining, which of course could only take place on Earth itself. The Martians probably HADN'T fought a war against anyone for a long time before the invasion of Earth. Thus, their military doctrine and technology would tend to stagnate. That said, they did pretty good for a military force that had stagnated, didn't they? Wells stated in the novel that there are no bacteria on Mars, though that was just a guess, it was probably a good one. Remember, we're talking about another planet with a different chain of evolution. Either bacteria never existed on Mars, or it died out long before Martian culture was capable of finding it. Having them defend against something they couldn't even conceive of is asking an awful lot of them, if you ask me. The "one-way trip" cannon shots might actually have been a clever psychological ploy by the Martian leadership to make their troops fight better. With no way home and no line of retreat, the Martian troops have the choice between dying and being victorious, which would tend to make them fight harder. It even has historical precedent here on Earth: When Cortez first invaded Mexico (and that campaign has a lot of similarities to an "aliens invade Earth" scenario), he burned all his ships so his men couldn't desert and go home. Letting the troops all die on Earth if they lost the war might also be considered good demographics. After all, the planet Mars is dying, and every Martian lost in the failed invasion attempt is one less for the planet's reduced resources to support.

Author:	Lonesome Crow [ Fri Jun 03, 2005 12:21 am ]
Post subject:
Loz, they didn't want to wipe us out, they wanted a living larder. Plus, H.G.W didn,t have a hundred years of SCI/FI writing to draw ideas from, giant robotic machines are one thing, but microscopic machines? the man was clever but I think you're expecting a bit much of a Victorian author.

Author:	Loz [ Thu Apr 07, 2005 11:32 am ]
Post subject:
Without sheild technology the Martians would be buggered if they landed now or even back in the fifties. So if you contemporise the story then you have to give the Martians better defenses. <br />Pendragons feature doesn't have to update the martian technology and so at first we can have a bit of a war, with cannon bringing down a couple of fighting machines and the Thuunderchild getting its little victory before being ripped apart by the Heatrays.<br />Also now the invasion would have to be more or less world wide and simultanius. I love the way in the book they just begin by invading southern England and in particular London. They deal with the major power first and then will quite slowly move on. The flying machine becomes very important then of course. They will use Earth resources to build a fleet of them then zip about the planet dropping balck smoke on the cities from above.<br />

Author:	Leper Messiah [ Fri Apr 08, 2005 9:25 am ]
Post subject:
im pretty sure any race that had been studying Earth would be aware of nuclear weapons and bearing in mind just how far ahead the Martians are in their development they are likely to have had such weapons themselves and very likely would have developed an effective counter. Sheilds are not their only defensive option, its just the most common in sci fi (but first popularised on the big screen by WOTW i believe)

Author:	Loz [ Sat Apr 09, 2005 10:12 pm ]
Post subject:
Have you ever read Childhood's End by Arther. C. Clarke?<br /><br />The power the visitors from another world have over us is incredible.<br /><br />

Author:	Loz [ Tue May 17, 2005 12:08 pm ]
Post subject:
Looks like Pendragon proved my point with this thread I started way back on my first day here and that is that the Martians are so bloody backward they haven't even arrived and never will. Silly buggers probably went the wrong way and got sucked into Juptiter.

Author:	Demad [ Thu Jun 02, 2005 5:16 am ]
Post subject:
Hi, some interesting and some funny replies, but as to why the Martians we're not using more advance technology to attack with can I just ask... If you we're getting rid of some ants in your garden, would you bring some nukes along or would you try boiling water and pesticide? If a couple then sting you like fire ants, what would the odds be of you thinking you could be allergic to the venom and die? Killed by pesky ants, bet you didn't think that was possible when you picked up your bucket of hot water and spray can...

Author:	Loz [ Thu Jun 02, 2005 9:29 am ]
Post subject:
alls i'm saying is a culture that is millions of years in advancement of us, would have technolagies that we can only dream of, power sorces, not yet thought of. they would be god like. they would have weapons such as nano mites which could be programmed to attack only humans, they could have sent them in little self making factories that use local, metals as building material. they could over run us in days. if i can think of it then they can do it. they wouldn't even need to invade until we are all dead. pesticides, you said yourself demad. if you compare us to ants, then the martians don't use pesticied. they go into the nest and attack us with fire and brutality. i know they use black smoke to smother london, but its not as effective as say bombarding earth with nano bots.

Author:	Loz [ Fri Jun 03, 2005 12:27 pm ]
Post subject:
I know I know and thirdly I know. The idea of this post was to say that if Pendragon were going to remain faithful to the book then the Martians would have to appear to be a little lacking in technology, for a race millions of years in advancement. This is one of the reasons I love War of the Worlds so much. The retro future technology. The reason the martians aren't as clever as say the "invaders" in Childhoods End, By Arther C Clark is because Wells could only use the imagination of future technology relating to his own time. So I want more than anything for the martians to be a little backward. I know they want to farm us, so the nano bots could be programmed just to turn us into slaves. Arguably anyone making even a period peice of War of the Worlds, would have the delema of just using Wells's vision of Martian technology or technology based on what we can collectively dream of now.

Page 5 of 8	All times are UTC
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/