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 Post subject: Why No "Thunder Child"?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 2:00 am 
Tripod King

Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:07 am
Posts: 262
Location: west-central Pennsylvanai
Here's a little question suitable for this mostly-British board. The "Thunder Child" in Wells' novel was an imaginary ship, okay. But I recently managed to get my hands on J.J. Colledge's book "Ships of the Royal Navy" (2003; published by both Greenhill Books in London and Stackpole Books in Mechanicsburg, PA---my home state---in the US), which lists EVERY British naval vessel from the Fifteenth Century to the time of publicaton. Your navy's had a lot of ships with "thunder" in their names, but apparently there has NEVER been a ship of ANY type called the "Thunder Child".

Just out of curiosity, why do you think this is so? After Wells' novel became popular, why did the Royal Navy never name a vessel after the bravest ship that never existed? After all, the US Navy named its first nuclear sub the "Nautilus" after Captain Nemo's sub in "20,000 Leagues Under the Sea", and Jules Verne wasn't even an American. And don't give the explanation that "it's an imaginary ship", because everything in mythology is imaginary, too, and your navy's put out TONS of ships named after characters and creatures from Classical mythology.

With all the interest in "The War of the Worlds" prevalent now, maybe you could send a petition to the government, asking that if/when your impoverished military scrapes together enough funds to build a major warship (such as a full-fledged fleet carrier or a missile-armed surface vessel of at least cruiser-size), that they name it "Thunder Child" after one of the most famous fictional British warships in literature. Don't expect us to bail you out like we did Verne's France; we have our own system in place for naming warships, and Verne was just lucky enough that we named submarines after marine animals.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 9:11 am 
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Martian War Lord

Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 5:02 pm
Posts: 3114
Location: Ridderkerk, the Netherlands
I visited Startrek.com yesterday, and I found out that one of the Federation Starships was named: U.S.S. Thunderchild!


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 9:13 am 
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Tripod King

Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2005 3:11 pm
Posts: 252
Location: Londoon, UK
I have no idea. Probably because most of the time, the kinds of people responsible for naming warships have been senior civil servants brought up on the classics and who wouldn't soil their hands touching a science-fiction novel, no matter how exalted. And much of the time, great names are revived for major vessels. So, for example, HMS Vanguard, a trident submarine, is not simply named Vanguard becuase of the frontline connotations of the name, but also because there have been several Vanguards since a ship of that name sailed against the Armada in 1588. Warship names, for the Royal Navy, have a life of their own, with their own history and even their own coat of arms. It's a bit like the hallowed names of army regiments.

A combination of the weight of history, then, plus a predilection for also using the names of mythological figures, counties, towns, monarchs, military figures, great victories and aristocrats, to an extent circumscribes what names are available.

The US has its own system, which in some ways is (or has been) more formulaic than ours (so, for example, all blue seas battleships were named after states). Also, there isn't that burden of historical reference - some of the names used for our ships pre-date the founding of the US, so there's a long tradition to uphold. Americans, on the other hand, can experiment, and use innovative names. 'Nautilus' is a case in point, though it's not just a Vernian invention - a nautilus is a shelled cephalopod, and Fulton named his submarine 'Nautilus' decades before Verne.

Given that our navy has shrunk so much, though, and the available pool of ships is thus so small, the chances of anyone deciding to use the name of a fictional warship from a sci-fi novel instead of, say, a name that has a history going back 600 years are a million to one against.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 1:18 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2005 11:44 pm
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But you know...The chances of anything coming from mars was a million to one...but still they came.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 8:43 pm 
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Martian War Lord

Joined: Sun Feb 13, 2005 10:00 pm
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Location: Liverpool, UK
Million to One odds come to pass Nine out of Ten times!

Actually guys I've had a word with the Lord Admiral himself and told him to name the next warship Thunderchild, and he said he would, so there you go.


Bah bah black sheap April diamond spheres, Rigsby, Rigsby, Eight sided Pears.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 11:38 pm 
Tripod King

Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:07 am
Posts: 262
Location: west-central Pennsylvanai
Good for you! Now maybe something will be done!

Seriously, I didn't expect much from this thread. It was at least partially done with tongue firmly in cheek. I know a lot of Royal Navy ship names have a long past; one of those "Vanguards" came out late in World War II, as the last battleship to be built for the Royal Navy.

Just for the record, our naming system wasn't quite so firm in the beginning. We had a predreadnought battleship named "Kearsarge", after the Union warship that sank the Confederate raider "Alabama" off the coast of France. Now famous ship names of the past are reserved for aircraft carriers, and "Kearsarge" was also tagged onto one of the last Essex-Class carriers we built. Battle cruisers were going to be the same way, but our first few were converted to the original Lexington-Class carriers, and finally we named them after US possessions such as Guam and---in those days---Alaska and Hawaii. We built a pair of battle cruisers with 12" guns during WWII to counter the German pocket battleships, named Alaska and Guam, and stopped work on Hawaii when she was 84% complete.

In our navy, lessor famous military and other men get their names tagged onto all destroyer-types (destroyers, destroyer escorts, and the guided missile versions of each). All cruisers other than battle cruisers are named after cities, and all battleships after states. Aircraft carriers are named after REALLY famous men, great ships of the past, and battles. Subs are named after aquatic life and other watery names, though a few are also named after famous men like George Washington for some reason.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 5:22 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2005 11:44 pm
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Loz wrote:
Million to One odds come to pass Nine out of Ten times!

Actually guys I've had a word with the Lord Admiral himself and told him to name the next warship Thunderchild, and he said he would, so there you go.


ARE YOU JOKING?


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 6:20 pm 
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Martian War Lord

Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 5:02 pm
Posts: 3114
Location: Ridderkerk, the Netherlands
I don't think Loz is kidding. But if he is, then he;s got a big sense of humor, and I like that.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 7:36 pm 
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Martian War Lord

Joined: Sun Feb 13, 2005 10:00 pm
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Location: Liverpool, UK
Jo King? who's she?


Bah bah black sheap April diamond spheres, Rigsby, Rigsby, Eight sided Pears.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 7:40 pm 
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Martian War Lord

Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 5:02 pm
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Location: Ridderkerk, the Netherlands
See what I mean? Hey, Loz, have you heard of the kidnapping?


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 7:43 pm 
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Martian War Lord

Joined: Sun Feb 13, 2005 10:00 pm
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Location: Liverpool, UK
Not sure. tell more?


Bah bah black sheap April diamond spheres, Rigsby, Rigsby, Eight sided Pears.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 7:44 pm 
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Martian War Lord

Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 5:02 pm
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Location: Ridderkerk, the Netherlands
But then the kid woke up! Get it? Kid napping!


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 7:46 pm 
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Martian War Lord

Joined: Sun Feb 13, 2005 10:00 pm
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Location: Liverpool, UK
:lol:


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 7:48 pm 
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Martian War Lord

Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 5:02 pm
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Location: Ridderkerk, the Netherlands
I saw that joke when I was playing The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask. Two juggling twins told the joke there in Clock Town.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2005 12:47 pm 
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Martian War Lord

Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 10:31 pm
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Location: N.Humberside.UK
Loz wrote:
Million to One odds come to pass Nine out of Ten times!

Who's a Terry Pratchett reader then? :wink:


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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DldFBFJgWmw&feature=player_embedded


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 5:16 pm 
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Martian War Lord

Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 5:02 pm
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Location: Ridderkerk, the Netherlands
Did you know that there was a starship named USS Wells? It was named after H.G. It was also a ship of the Wells-class ships.


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