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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 9:46 pm 
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Martian War Lord

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:-k No I don't agree with you here [-( :D The description in the book is of a 'flat and broad' object, this is not the same description Wells gave for the canisters of black smoke.
Wells then goes on to describe the motion of the object
'rushed slantingly upward and very swiftly into the luminous clearness above the clouds in the western sky, swept round in a vast curve, grew smaller, sank slowly,'
'swept round in a vast curve' this sounds like a guided craft to me, rather than the parabola of a launched projectile.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 10:14 pm 
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morrisvan wrote:
The flying object could have been a cannister of black smoke. It's implied that the fleet took on the Martians and it's possible that the Martians came off the worst and were forced to retreat. A cannister of black smoke may hae been launched but it either misfired or fractured and that was what was seen from the paddle steamer.

Sorry Morris, but Lonesome is right - you are, I'm afraid, completely wrong. Apart from the end of the Thunder Child chapter, there are further hints later and an unambiguous description of the flying machine near the end.

Have a look at these threads on another site, there are many direct quotes as well as much discussion:

http://robk.proboards13.com/index.cgi?board=book&action=display&thread=1095622499
http://robk.proboards13.com/index.cgi?board=book&action=display&thread=1095622499&page=2
http://robk.proboards13.com/index.cgi?board=book&action=display&thread=1133348650


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 3:13 pm 
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Martian War Lord

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Thanks McTodd, the first link was particularly helpful, a piece from the PEARSONS MAGAZINE 1897 and not in the final novel
"It has often been asked as to why the Martians did not fly immediately after their arrival. They certainly did use a flying apparatus for several days, but only for brief flights of a score or so of miles, in order to reconnoitre and spread their black powder. The framework found at Kilburn was certainly this flying machine. I never saw this thing flying myself, but my brother, as I have already told in its proper place, had just a glimpse of it. It is hard to believe, seeing their other power, that this was their limit in this direction.

Two things must have prevented the immediate resort to aeronautics. In the first place it must have been impossible to pack the necessary wings into the cylinder by which the Martians came, and in the next the problem of flying in our atmosphere was one they could scarcely calculate in detail upon Mars, since it would be almost impossible for them to estimate the density of our lower air, until they reached it. But these are of course merely suggestions. The fact remains, that they did not fly fifty miles from London all through the war. Had they done so, then the destruction they would have caused must have been infinitely greater than it was, though it could not have averted the end, of course, even by a day"


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 7:44 pm 
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Right, I've had another think and here's my suggestion.

I was only thinking of the time it took to assembile the Flying Machine and that the last thing the Martians wanted was to waste valuable time. I'd overlooked that they knocked up the Black Smoke in a couple of hours. So its likely that the Flying Machine was developed on Mars and brought to Earth in one of the cylinders. Look at the D-Day landings for example when the Allies brought along such equipment as submersible tanks, tanks with rotating chains to detonate mines and the PLUTO oil pipelline.It was stated that each cylinder could hold up to five Martians. A total of ten took part in the final assault on London with the rest - up to three or four -left behind to assembile the Flying Machine. I imagine the plan was to use it in the assault except London was taken a lot quicker.

This would be a blessing in disguse for the Martians as they would be able to properly test the machine. It's possible it could have been used for reconassiance during which it's crew witnessed the batlte with the Channel Fleet and then returned later on to spray it with Black Smoke in case they proved to be a threat. This may have been counter-productive as the fleet could easily have steamed out of danger.

What about the battle heard at the end by the narrator's brother? Was it between the Martians and the Channel Fleet, or was it coming from inland. It might explain the Flying Machine's direction. It appeared to be flying inland so was it spraying ground based batteries with Black Smoke?

Feel free to spray Black Smoke on this one.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:48 am 
Tripod King

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I'd always assumed that the flying machine buzzed the Channel Fleet on its maiden flight, and the "thunder of guns" was them trying to shoot it down.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 8:53 pm 
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Martian War Lord

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Yes it was definitely inland because Wells said 'in the western sky' but whether it was over land or the river he does not say, :-k unless you consider the statement 'swept round in a vast curve' as meaning the craft was following a bend in the river :-k but this is mere speculation.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 1:20 am 
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Some interesting stuff being discussed here. I just had a thought, whilst pondering the speculation of the course the flying machine may have taken. Consider the following possibility...
The Martian fighting machines fought against the Channel Fleet with mixed results. While the Heat Ray ultimately took out parts of the Fleet the same way it had the Thunder Child, surely the Fleet gave the Martians a run for their money. The battle wasn't easily won by the Martians simply by sheer force of numbers on the part of the British.
The Martian reaction to this was to use the flying machine to keep the remnants of the Channel Fleet at bay. Knowing that they couldn't use the Black Smoke directly against indivdual ships, they instead used it to lay smoke along the shore, following the coastline, with the ultimate intent of 'smoking' various ports all along the coast. This would keep the ships of the Fleet from being able to dock (in Engalnd, at least) for refueling, replenishing crew supplies (food), re-arming and so on. Effectively, ships of the Fleet unable to be taken out by direct combat would be worn down by attrition.
What do you all think?


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 1:48 am 
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Oh, I forgot to mention the psychological effect a flying machine must have had on the Fleet crewmen. Seeing whole ships defeated by the Fighting Machines would have been daunting, but it would have been somewhat countered by the few machines that the battleships must have been able to destroy (likely in a crossfire, as part of the winning by sheer numbers thing I mentioned in my last post).
But then the Martians bring out their Flying Machine, which can approach quickly, attack (if so equipped) and leave quickly, all above the range of the battleships. Even if it didn't take out a sinlge ship, it showed that it was within the Martian capabilities to do so; think of how old fleets could be used to sail into harbours as a show of force to scare a place into submission before even firing a shot. Add to that the smoke-laying along the coast lines, and more than a few sailors must've had thoughts like those of the defeated artilleryman: "We're beaten..."




No, I don't think they had thoughts about digging tunnels, by the way. "We'll dig our way back to England, right under the Channel! Come out from right under their feet! Man on top again!" :D


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:04 pm 
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Martian War Lord

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craigr wrote:
The Martian reaction to this was to use the flying machine to keep the remnants of the Channel Fleet at bay. Knowing that they couldn't use the Black Smoke directly against individual ships, they instead used it to lay smoke along the shore, following the coastline, with the ultimate intent of 'smoking' various ports all along the coast. This would keep the ships of the Fleet from being able to dock (in England, at least) for refueling, replenishing crew supplies (food), re-arming and so on.

Would the Martians think like that, Wells said
HG Wells wrote:
It was the torpedo ram, THUNDER CHILD, steaming headlong, coming to the rescue of the threatened shipping.
Keeping his footing on the heaving deck by clutching the bulwarks, my brother looked past this charging leviathan at the Martians again, and he saw the three of them now close together, and standing so far out to sea that their tripod supports were almost entirely submerged. Thus sunken, and seen in remote perspective, they appeared far less formidable than the huge iron bulk in whose wake the steamer was pitching so helplessly. It would seem they were regarding this new antagonist with astonishment. To their intelligence, it may be, the giant was even such another as themselves.
The Martians weren't even sure what the THUNDER CHILD was, so would they have considered blockading ports and cutting supply lines? :-k

Once the Martians knew the ships were dangerous the wouldn't have let a ship get close enough to fire a successful shot They'd either Heat Ray them from a distance or black smoke them from the air.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 3:19 am 
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Oh, well, it seemed like a good idea. :|
I imagine had the invasion continued, and the Martians figured out that the ships came from ports, they might have implemented a plan similar to what I described.

Getting a little silly for a moment...
You know, technically, we don't know what the Martians truly thought; we only get supposition of the Narrator. Maybe the three tripods grouped together like bullies on a playground and the Martians within collectively said "They wouldn't have the audacity to attack us! No, they wouldn't! Not a chance..." (Thunder Child closes in...) "Um, hey, they aren't slowing down." (Thunder Child fires...) "Oh, that's IT! You humans are so dead now!"
After the battle, like any bully, the Martians retaliated by doing some 'petty vandalism,' in this case by laying black smoke along the coast. So, HA! My idea works! \:D/
OK, silliness over.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 8:21 pm 
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Martian War Lord

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:lol: No not really silly at all, as you say we only have the supposition of the Narrator and the Narrator said one of the Martians wiped out Leatherhead and everyone in it for no apparent reason, so maybe it was just petty vandalism, or maybe a malfunctioning Fighting Machine. 8-[
That's the thing about Aliens, they do Alien things. :lol:


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 1:49 am 
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Malfunctioning fighting machine, eh? I wonder where that idea might crop up... :wink:
I'm glad you got a chuckle out of my 'silly' idea, at least.

edited to fix 'glad' so it didn't read 'gald.'


Insert witty, yet philosophical remark here...


Last edited by craigr on Sun Apr 06, 2008 12:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 11:55 am 
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Martian War Lord

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Going back to your original question, I think, if the fleet had stayed to fight they may have taken out another three or four FMs (if they were lucky) the Martians would (as I said before) make it a long-range battle after seeing the fate of their fallen comrades, and a tripod low in the water would make a difficult target. Plus the sun has just set so it'll be getting dark soon, this would probably hamper us more than it would the Martians with their sophisticated technology. so if the Thunder Child and the fleet combined maneged to take out 5 or 6 FMs that would still leave the Martians with 19 or 20 FMs at this point in the story. it would have been a big blow to the Martians but a bigger one to us.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 1:09 am 
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I definitely agree that no matter how big a blow against the Martians the Fleet made, it ultimately was on the losing side of the battle. I was just imagining a way that the remains of the Fleet might be kept at bay by the Martians. (Going back to my original point, not the 'playground bully' one.)

Just had another thought about if the flying machine actually did lay Black Smoke directly on the Fleet (sorry if it's already been discussed... I just got off work and wanted to play around a bit, but haven't time to go back and re-read everything). Anti-aircraft guns didn't exist back then, so the Flying Machine could have attacked with relative impunity once close enough to the ships to be out of vertical range. If it laid enough smoke over a large enough area, which settled from the air onto the ships, those ships might not have had time to steam out of the smoke cloud. This would be even more effective for the Martian victory if the smoke were used against the remains of the embattled fleet; a 'mopping up' action, if you will.
I know this isn't what I originally was talking about, of course, but I'm just entertaining possibilities within the context of the story.


Insert witty, yet philosophical remark here...


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 8:52 am 
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Martian War Lord

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The flying machine could possibly drop black smoke on the fleet and have success in smothering the crew if it were stationary. It would take too long to get up speed to move out of it. But an on board heat ray or three would be far more effective. Shooting from above, the ships would go down quickly one after the other. It would take minutes to destroy an entire fleet. Plus the Martians with their inventiveness would like rustle up anti naval weapons and deploy them.


Bah bah black sheap April diamond spheres, Rigsby, Rigsby, Eight sided Pears.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 12:50 pm 
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Martian War Lord

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Something I've been wondering, Wells said about the Flying Machine, "And as it flew it rained down darkness upon the land" did it spray Black Smoke directly? or did it rain down Black Smoke canisters? because the latter wouldn't be very effective over the sea unless it hit an object hard enough to smash the canister such as a ship.
Personally I think it would have sprayed like a crop-duster.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 4:04 am 
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I'm going with the 'crop duster' analogy. It would be a more effective method of smoking out a larger area than a stationary tripod with a single canister.

And if actually used as an anti-ship weapon, it could follow ships as they tried to steam clear of the smoke cloud, long enough for each ship's crew (or most of it) to succumb. (Yes, the heat ray would be more immediate & effective. I know I seem hung up on the smoke-versus-ships thing... I'm just trying to exhaust all the possibilities. Hopefully, I'm not exhausting the readers in the process!)


Insert witty, yet philosophical remark here...


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 7:18 pm 
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Martian War Lord

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Yes using the Heat rays would have be more effective but Wells did say somewhere in the book (I can't quite remember where) "the Martians didn't use the Heat Ray all that day" and he attributed this to the chemicals to produce the Heat Ray being scarce. :-k And thinking about it now I can't remember whether the Martians used the Heat Ray at all after the Thunder Child scene. :-k
So were the Martians rapidly running out of weapons?


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